Security at Dragon*Con 2011

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

EDIT: With the great response this post is getting, let's try and make something happen here. Send Dragon*con security any ideas you may have in ways to improve security for the 2011 show. Go to the contact security form through the D*Con web page. Get as many people as you can to do the same. Pass the word along. Select "security" from the drop down menu. The hotels and Dragon*con MUST agree to start checking badges or room keys at the hotel entrances  to keep the non-con goers out.  Why should we pay and others not?!

dragoncon.org/dc_contact.php

Since it doesn't seem like anyone has addressed this issue for D*Con 2011 recently, I will go ahead and put it on the table.

As I'm sure many others noticed, last year there were several security concerns during the convention. I remember reading all the different posts of women being accosted and "felt up" by individuals who had no badge and nothing to do with the convention itself. Letters were mailed to the hotel and complaints filed. Since then, it has all gone quiet.... Has anything been done by the hotel or Dragon*Con to alleviate this problem? Or, are the powers that be just hoping we would all forget about it and just deal for next year?

I have noticed every year the convention getting more and more filled with people who have come to the hotels thinking they would be getting a free "freaks on parade" show. Individuals include: Football fans, nearby college students, and random people off the street hoping to get a free good time at the expense of those who paid to be there. It's not the same convention it was 5 years ago, the con is changing and not for the good.

Before I go dumping more hard earned money on a convention that is already getting ridiculously priced, are any of these issues going to be addressed? What is to keep random grabby pervs away from my girlfriend or friends? With everything getting expensive these days, I need some re-assurances that this will be a safe convention and the money will be well spent. I wonder what the ratio is of people who just wander in off the streets is, to those who actually paid for a badge?

Comments

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

Valid points indeed. The biggest problems I had were at the Marriott, which I should have pointed out in the above post. I just wanted to campus the con security in general. As far as the discussions go about security, I was hoping to see something about it on the D*con official web page; just to let us know they acknowledged there will be changes to make it a safer convention for us all. I have seen nothing to that effect. It's one thing to bitch about it on LJ, but another thing to actually see some tangible results.

I have always gotten the feeling from the Marriott staff that we are those "rejects" that come in once a year. They just have to deal with us because we give them money. I have over heard bell hops and front desk staffers making jokes about the "side show" coming Labor Day weekend. I don't think their intentions to protect us with their security are as noble as they would have us think. Might just be me, but I digress.

I don't want the convention to get to this point. It had always been the underdog convention in my mind and it's starting to grow into something that is more of a drunken frat party. When did it become let's go take advantage of the weirdos? I liked it better when it was just us hanging out without the need for douchery.

[trybutez.livejournal.com]

There's a difference between finding something curious and different and finding it a reject and wishing ill upon it. I've never gotten the feeling from any of the staff that they look down on us. Yes, they're amused, curious, and most often don't understand what we're about, but again, do you laugh at the misery of others you don't understand?

I've stayed repeatedly at the Marriott and it's been one of my favorite experiences to find a new employee there and ask them their impressions. Just as often it's a look of amazement as anything else. I'll never forget this one girl saying how the other girl warned her, but she couldn't really believe it... The bewilderment in her eyes and the smile on her face were priceless.

Heck, last year the staff of the Sheraton actually dressed up themselves! So, no, I disagree in believing that the staff thinks less of us and sees us only as money signs.

...

Now, the MANAGEMENT.... that's a different story.

[thatwordgrrl.livejournal.com]

This. Totally.

Several years ago, we had dinner at the Trader Vic's over in the Sheraton. We had a very nice Russian waiter who at one point, looked at us mournfully and said, "I have always wanted to go to the con. I cannot because I must always work that weekend."

Punctuated with a Heavy Dramatic Russian Sigh.

It was priceless!

[elvishtard.livejournal.com]

Yes, management HAS been a problem. There was one guy in 2009 that kept yelling at people to move their cars LOADED down with luggage, as we were all trying to check in. "YOU DON'T GET OUT THERE NOW, AND I'M HAVING EVERYBODY TOWED!" A few people we knew, nearly got into an altercation with this guy, until someone above him finally came over and reprimanded his ass.

The bellhops have been a problem in the past as well -_-. Now, well and true, we have had some GREAT Marriott/other hotel staffers. One guy in particular, who is still working at the Marriott, was a GREAT crowd traffic controller. We were taking group photos on one of the levels, back in '08, and he made himself our crowd controller. We were right at the bottom of one of the elevators, and people kept stopping to get pictures. He would make everyone stop, take a picture and kept the flow moving. He was cordial, nice and appreciated the experience.

Then there's the bad side. And you'll always have the bad side. Some of the garage car parkers hit on my friend and her girlfriend and propositioned her for sex. Last year, as we were going to our room on Thursday, some whore of a girl was on the railing ledge, with a school girl skirt on WITH NO UNDERWEAR, at 11am in the morning, yelling "CAN YOU SEE MY VAGINA??" Instead of telling the girl to get off the railing for her safety, the bell hop stopped and took a picture with his camera phone. Some of the management tried to really berate a few friends and I, as we sat down on one of the room levels to talk and swap stories, on Sunday night of the con. They proceeded to forcefully move up and were exceedingly rude to one of our older friends who has a cane and can't walk very far. They told her to hurry the hell up and move. She's in her 50's with a bum leg! Have a little sympathy! It wasn't as if we were being overly loud, or causing havoc, we were merely eating some food and talking. We were basically being drowned out by the crowds below anyway.

Disgusting. That kind of crap is unprofessional and disgusting.

[trybutez.livejournal.com]

Out of curiousity... was anyone actually towed? I suspect, as we've seen in the past, that the line of cars extended out into the road, blocking traffic. So the guy was, basically, doing his job and would have been well within his rights to have people towed. (which, I'm assuming, he didn't) But in reality, he was just trying to get a hussle on. See, the reason you got to the front of the line to be yelled at by him as fast as you did is because he yelled at the ten/twenty/hundred people ahead of you in the same manner, as he probably had been for hours. Sadly, it's how it works. If he wasn't there, doing that, the first few cars to pull in would take an hour or two to unload and check in. So, unless cars were actually towed, I find it hard to find fault in what he was doing. Shame he probably got reprimanded for doing a good job.

Now, I completely agree there is always a bad side. That there's always going to be some idiot or what not who ruins it for everyone... (maybe said car guy?) And as I'm sure you know, they come in all shapes and sizes, from hotel employees to congoers. Now... lets look at your example. You've cited this example before, as I remember, from just after last year's con.

But, for clarification's sake, what's your gripe here? The exhibitionism or the endangerment? I'm just curious, what should the bellhop have done? Just say "Miss, you need to get down, that's not safe?" Because, this girl being such a stickler for authority as evidinced by her lack of attire, she would have minded? Tackled her to the ground and forced her to put on underwear? So he can be accused of rape? Try to reason with her (and I'm assuming her friends) and in the meantime, be even later for wherever he's supposed to be so that someone can acccuse him of dragging ass because he hates Congers? For all you know, that picture he took, he immediately sent to hotel security so they could come deal with it, using said photo as evidence, because, you know, that's their job, not his. (probably not what happened, but the point is, you don't know, do you?) Call the police so they can arrest her for indecent exposure (probably not, but maybe)

You know, you could have done most of those. Tried to reason with her, call the police... or middle ground... get D*C security to threaten her with pulling her badge. Did you do any of those, or just seethe in your rightous anger? Maybe you didn't take a picture yourself, but the story is so burned into your mind it seems, you might as well have.

Out of curiousity -again- did the hotel staff actually say "hurry the hell up"? On Sunday night? As I recall, the Marriott was locked down by the police one of those nights. Or maybe the dreaded fire marshall was there ready to fine the hotel for any infraction, and yes, blocking a hallway is an infraction, even if you don't think you were doing that... or... maybe someone in one of the rooms you all were in front of called downstairs to complain about the people loitering in front of their rooms.

I'm not making excuses for the staff, really, I'm not. I'm just saying there's always reasons for things, even if we're not aware of them. They may not always be good reasons, or reasons we agree with, but they are reasons. We want the staff to treat us as princes and princesses when we're there, because we're there on vacation, but they're not. For them, it's a job. So it's a two way street. It's worth remembering that for this weekend, these people are literally trapped by us. I'm sure NO ONE gets Labor Day weekend off in Con hotels. Heck, some of them, especially hotel security and cleaning staff, probably work sixty plus hours from Thursday through Monday. Can you imagine being in House Cleaning and having to go into a room occupied by ten people to clean up after them? But don't worry, they left a tip!... if you count a half eaten pizza a tip. (seriously, people, tip the hotel cleaning staff!)So yeah, they might get frustrated with us, too. They are only human.

You say it's disgusting and professional. I'm not so sure.

[elvishtard.livejournal.com]

First of all: The car towing situation happened at 10:30 in the morning, when it wasn't crowded at all. They want to know what room you're in and to unpack your car and if you don't want to pay the over-priced amount to park at the hotel, you have to rush to check in, make sure that the bell hops don't completely trash your props and costumes, get BACK in the car, drive to a parking lot, get back to the hotel and get your stuff to your room. Hopefully you have more than just yourself, or this would be crazy.

Secondly: he laughed, stared up and took a picture, saying something under his breath. I assure you, he did NOT act like he wanted it reported. He acted like he wanted to get the girl's room number for a later meetup.

Also, it's not my place to call the police on her, when there is a hotel staff member, whose JOB it is to report actions like that. Like hell I wanted to take a picture. You really think I wanted to see that 5 minutes into the con? Put some fucking clothes on. Unless your a little perved-up guy, what this girl was doing was FAR from attractive.

As for the 2009 Sunday night hall raid; this was because they were going floor-to-floor trying to confiscate alcohol and shut down room parties. Neither of which did we have, or were doing. We were merely conversing. Now I don't agree with them randomly confiscating people's drinks/food (which they were taking BOTH of), but I do agree to them confiscating the booze if someone(s) is belligerent. They were just doing this for the sake of doing it. Whether we were drunk or not, and we obviously weren't, and conceded with no argument for fear of being reprimanded.

Anyway, I totally understand what the hotel staff has to deal with, and like I said, a good percentage of the staff are cordial (especially in the Sheraton), but like you made a point of, there's always bad eggs and they tend to shine out more than anything, especially if you have to deal directly with them. I'm not someone who never leaves a tip, and I've also stayed until Tuesday and have witnessed the huge clean up crew that comes in after all the con-goers leave. EVERYTHING gets hosed down.

The point is, if you're paying A LOT of money to be at a 5-star hotel, ALL the staff should be slightly more superior than that of a La Quinta. But it goes with out saying, that the guests should act a little more reputable too. I know there's horror stories of the disasters some of the rooms have been in. Someone threw a damned flat screen out a window last year! I believe that was an LSU fan, but I digress. I've heard aweful stories from con goers too, and I do feel sorry for those who have to clean up after those who don't act their age. No matter how fancy the hotel, no one should have to clean up fecal matter or projectile vomit -_-.

[trybutez.livejournal.com]

Well, I can't speak to the car towing situation, as I wasn't there... suffice it to say, 10:30 AM on the Friday of the Con can still be hectic. The guy might even have been working since yesterday. Who know? I won't make excuses for him though, and as you say, it was resolved when his supervisor/superior/alpha showed up.

Secondly to your secondly, regarding the bellhop... There are a *lot* of assumptions made here. Just because he laughed means/proves nothing. You don't know where he was going or had been, or even if, technically speaking, he was on the job (though the uniform implies, but does not prove, it). Because he laughed and muttered something under his breath which you admit you couldn't make out, doesn't mean a thing. He might still have sent said pic to security, or shown said pic to security the first chance he got (say, when he was done with whatever task he was currently assigned)

You wanted him to report this situation, as it was, in your words, JOB to do. I ask you, how do you know he did not?? You're assuming he didn't, because it reinforces your notion of his behavior, but you cannot know this.

I'm also not saying what she was doing was attractive, though she clearly had/has an exhibitionist streak in her. What I am saying is... Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds as though you would have been satisfied by anything less than this bellhop stopping what he was doing, and rushing up there to physically correct the situation himself (something for which he is probably neither trained or prepared to do). Of the several other solutions to the problem... and there were several... he may well have done one of them without your being witness to it. (probably not, but you can't know)

And... if you legitimately thought it was a safety issue as you claim.... or even just inappropriate behavior for the Con... and you legitimately believe this bellhop failed to act as he should, then, yes, I would say the onus falls to you to act. If you didn't, when you could have, then some of the responsibility for the consequences of those behaviors could, arguably, fall to you. Did you at least report the bellhop to the hotel once in your room?

How can the hotel, or anyone else, remedy a problem (Be it the girl or the bellhop) if they're not made aware of it?

It seems in alot of ways, we're trying to scapegoat the hotel staff for everything we don't like that's happening at the con, from serving alcohol to inappropriate behavior. I don't particularily care for this trend.

Regarding the Sunday night hall raid... Again, I wasn't there. And again, I've seen hotel staff do some stupid things at times... Could they have handled it better? Possibly. Probably, even. But you were in a highly trafficked walkway (During con, I consider all the hallways highly trafficked) You weren't in a public seating area, during a time when the hotel was cracking down on room parties, in response to a dangerous situation, and again, for all you know, someone in one of the rooms called to complain about you all. I think this was very much a nobody was right, nobody was wrong, situation.

I do agree with you that the hotels cost a *lot* of money. And yes, the service should be superior to the Holiday Inn Express/Red Roof, whatever... but ask yourself, honestly, if the service, under the circumstances, was really as atrocious as you describe. Maybe for you, it was, and for that, I'm sorry, and it does beg the question of whether they deserve your patronage. There are other Con hotels.

For me, I've always had great service from both the Marriott and the Sheraton. (We got terrible service from the Hyatt one year, and for that reason, that hotel is last on our list of places to stay.) The instances you describe, I ask, are they the exception, or the rule, because that's what makes the difference.

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

It seems you for whatever reason don't want to put any responsibility in the hands of the people who are being paid to do their jobs. Why is it a crime to want results? The words "whining" and "naive" are words people are throwing around here. There are legitimate concerns that need to be met and clearly no one wants to get run over or be the "bad guy" here. I am not afraid to speak and pretend like it's all hunky dory, when it's not.

[trybutez.livejournal.com]

I've never used the words "whining" or "naive". I think you have me confused with another commenter. I fully agree there is a problem. I just don't want the cure to be worse than the disease. (for instance, I'm all for more security, especially in "trouble" areas- likewise, while I have reservations about the Back Up Ribbon, it, at least, is an attempt by the congoers themselves to take an action and remedy the situation.)

Now, having stated your impression of me, here's mine of you. (And if I'm wrong, I apologize, tell me so.) "The Hotels think we're rejects, and thus, they not only secretly delight in our abuse, but actually enable situations where said abuse occurs."

That's painting with a pretty broad brush, to which I call BS.

[littledrow.livejournal.com]

The hotel staff love us. We overtip to compensate for our weirdness and the wait staff even get into the whole concept by trying to dress up themselves.

[pixiekingtom.livejournal.com]

I think the original statement is closer to the truth: Staff loves us, management dreads us.
Having worked in security at an EXTREMELY busy haunted house with a small parking lot (I was the main target..err...traffic director) you do have to get over the top at times to get people moving. It sounds like they had a newbie in position from the sounds of things: Newbies tend to threaten with towing rather than encouring order because that's all they can think of when they get swamped. Not an excuse, his higher up did right by telling him to calm down and remember that these aren't inconviences, theyr'e customers

[chiefsbaby.livejournal.com]

Ya know, I used to stay at the Marriott and enjoyed it. But as the years went on, I too noticed the "we're just tolerating you" attitude as well. I decided to stay at the Hilton, and have been treated as a welcome guest each year. A vast improvement I must say!!! I don't like the Marriott, and am not surprised that so many incidents happened there. We make them money, & that's all they care about!!