Security at Dragon*Con 2011

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

EDIT: With the great response this post is getting, let's try and make something happen here. Send Dragon*con security any ideas you may have in ways to improve security for the 2011 show. Go to the contact security form through the D*Con web page. Get as many people as you can to do the same. Pass the word along. Select "security" from the drop down menu. The hotels and Dragon*con MUST agree to start checking badges or room keys at the hotel entrances  to keep the non-con goers out.  Why should we pay and others not?!

dragoncon.org/dc_contact.php

Since it doesn't seem like anyone has addressed this issue for D*Con 2011 recently, I will go ahead and put it on the table.

As I'm sure many others noticed, last year there were several security concerns during the convention. I remember reading all the different posts of women being accosted and "felt up" by individuals who had no badge and nothing to do with the convention itself. Letters were mailed to the hotel and complaints filed. Since then, it has all gone quiet.... Has anything been done by the hotel or Dragon*Con to alleviate this problem? Or, are the powers that be just hoping we would all forget about it and just deal for next year?

I have noticed every year the convention getting more and more filled with people who have come to the hotels thinking they would be getting a free "freaks on parade" show. Individuals include: Football fans, nearby college students, and random people off the street hoping to get a free good time at the expense of those who paid to be there. It's not the same convention it was 5 years ago, the con is changing and not for the good.

Before I go dumping more hard earned money on a convention that is already getting ridiculously priced, are any of these issues going to be addressed? What is to keep random grabby pervs away from my girlfriend or friends? With everything getting expensive these days, I need some re-assurances that this will be a safe convention and the money will be well spent. I wonder what the ratio is of people who just wander in off the streets is, to those who actually paid for a badge?

Comments

[rayhne.livejournal.com]

I read somewhere they are tightening up security in the host hotels, letting in only people with badges. Here: http://dragoncon.livejournal.com/2564412.html

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I remember reading that post. I checked the date on the post, it's from September of last year. I was hoping some updated information would be made available.

[paladyn.livejournal.com]

The Con Staff and the hotels may have every intention of enforcing the policies mentioned in the other thread, however looking at this from the perspective of someone who has worked large complicated operations...

-Policies brief well.
-Expectations need to be managed.
-The actual result is not usually what you expect.

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

In other words, some things look better on paper then they do when put into action?

[pixiekingtom.livejournal.com]

From what I've been informed, the Mariott especially will be doubling their security staff this year with uniformed off duty police officers. Will make the after hours sillyness tone down, but I don't think by much

[grimthorn.livejournal.com]

The Hyatt and Marriott will have hotel security outside of every entrance checking room keys and badges (no badge or room key, no getting in.. period)

The other host hotels will be encouraged to adopt a similar policy, but there is no definitive word on how they will do that.

[meinken.livejournal.com]

As the problem generally does not occur until the evening alcohol binges begin, the room key/badge checking will begin in the evening. I presume around 5-6pm, though I don't know for sure.

[trybutez.livejournal.com]

I don't think anyone's "forgetting" anything. This subject has been in perpetual discussion on this board since last DC (see the periodical updates about ribbons)

Unfortunately, I think there's limits on what D*C can and cannot do, and at that, they have to cooperate with both local law enforcement and the individual hotel security... so, it does beg the question, settle for a less enforced uniform policy for all host hotels that everyone could agree on? So a Con goer will know what to expect be they in the Sheraton or the Westin or the Hyatt? Or... a hodgepodge of policies per hotel, with there being supposedly more "safer" zones than others? Where a Con goer might not know what to expect at the Hilton or the Marriott?

Ultimately, the choice is going to be yours, I suppose (or better still, may be your girl friend's, as she's the one more directly affected?), but I would suggest facing this head on. The threat is serious, but to retreat in fear would be the greater sin, and possibly reinforce the notion that nerds/geeks can be bullied until they run away crying. I won't be that person.

While it's not at all the same, I look at it as akin to the "It Gets Better" project. Only shining the light of day on this, and shaming and calling to account the perpetrators will improve the situation. (okay, actually, now that I think about it, that's not at all the same, but hey, free plug!)Basically, football fan douches, geek fan douches, regular run of the mill douches, etc, just need to know we're not going to stand for this. Period.

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

Valid points indeed. The biggest problems I had were at the Marriott, which I should have pointed out in the above post. I just wanted to campus the con security in general. As far as the discussions go about security, I was hoping to see something about it on the D*con official web page; just to let us know they acknowledged there will be changes to make it a safer convention for us all. I have seen nothing to that effect. It's one thing to bitch about it on LJ, but another thing to actually see some tangible results.

I have always gotten the feeling from the Marriott staff that we are those "rejects" that come in once a year. They just have to deal with us because we give them money. I have over heard bell hops and front desk staffers making jokes about the "side show" coming Labor Day weekend. I don't think their intentions to protect us with their security are as noble as they would have us think. Might just be me, but I digress.

I don't want the convention to get to this point. It had always been the underdog convention in my mind and it's starting to grow into something that is more of a drunken frat party. When did it become let's go take advantage of the weirdos? I liked it better when it was just us hanging out without the need for douchery.

[jj-maccrimmon.livejournal.com]

One of the huge problems with security is certain aspects are probably out of the control of the staff. The hotels don't just book DragonCon partrons. I recall last year that hordes of LSU fans were in town for the SEC-ACC Classic and contributed to a number of unpleasant incidents. Until D*Con has an exclusivity contract with the hotels to host ONLY con participants, there's no way to easily enforce who can be in the common areas. Posting security at every door and access given the 80 to 90K number of participants and guests, will be guaranteed to create massive botlenecks at every entrance.

There's a known number of sites and areas where roving security teams should be in other to watch out for these folks who shouldn't be there. That's my suggestion.

[trybutez.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, I don't ever see the day the hotels sell only to D*C patrons, though wouldn't that be wonderful? I do like the idea of having specific areas patrolled. That's only logical and makes a wonderful amount of sense.

Now, I have heard that there are some schools which are better than others, meaning some fans have a rep for bad behaviour. (admittedly, that's painting with a broad stroke, but anyway...) So I suppose it's possible this concern will wax and wane depending upon the game participants. I would, however, like to see some measures taken by the schools perhaps. Just basic decency like... "These people may be different from you. Dress different, talk different, look different, but that's not excuse to be an Ahole..." But, y'know, more politic.

Unfortunately, it seems a third of the stories I heard last year happened on the escalators and there's not much to be done there. :(

[sensitivinferno.livejournal.com]

What's funny (though not actually funny at all) is that I got groped the year BEFORE last year. In 2009 there were a lot less complaints than in 2010, which means that it has steadily been getting worse since before the explosion of 2010 complaints...and it's hard to stop a freight train when it's going out of control. The con has gotten so huge that I'm afraid it's a little like a freight train. It's hard to control crowds that large.

My husband and I are sitting out this year for unrelated reasons, but I look forward to seeing the reports after the 2011 show. They may determine if we return in 2012 (along with the guest list, of course.)

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

My girlfriend and in the same boat with you and your husband. Dragon*Con is losing touch with their guests and getting greedy with money. I seriously think they could care less about the people and more about the cha-ching of the cash register.

[tacnukesoul.livejournal.com]

A big problem is D*C is pretty well known (dates and location) outside of the con circuit. There are a lot of people who know they will see "cute women in skimpy outfits" and there's very little to change that other than move the con in either time or space, neither of which is very likely.

All you can do is keep your head on a swivel ("be here now" for the Trekkies) and pay attention when something doesn't feel right. You don't have to become a vigilante, Just find someone and tell them. Not perfect, but sometimes it's all you can do.

[pixiekingtom.livejournal.com]

Actually, the goon of a reporter a few years back may have helped us out quite a bit with his "Man, these geeks stink" reporting.
On the downside, the douchebag fratboy population has gotten wind of us, and with the big college games in the city that weekend we'll most likely need the extra security.
On the upside, here's hoping that the amount of complaints that went to the colleges that were playing and to the alumni boards got the point across that jerkholes WILL go to jail this year, and that it's much easier to not try and steal someones badge and assault women then it is to explain to daddy why you need to be bailed out on assault charges (After getting your ass handed to you by a bunch of well armed pissed off geeks)

[orcapotter.livejournal.com]

I agree with everyone voicing that there is only so much the con and the hotels can do. The hotels also don't choose who stays at their establishment; if you're willing to pay, you can stay. As long as they have a set # of rooms set aside for non-con attendees, anyone can stay there. LSU fans are infamously known for their outrageous and obscene behavior. Throw that in with drunk attendees and drunk party-seekers and you've got the recipe for unwanted behavior. I've noticed that the whole drinking and partying scene has gotten bigger as the years have gone by. I avoid the bars and am in my room by 11 PM most nights, so I've rarely been bothered by it--especially since I've been staying with my friends in the Marriot on higher floors.

Even under the best security, you still want to be watchful. Don't go around by yourself in the evenings and keep to areas with a lot of people. I can agree with the idea that no one should have to do this while enjoying your vacation, but it's reality and applies everywhere. Hopefully security will take things more seriously this year in the meantime.

Expectations need to be managed.

[frankkmiller.livejournal.com]

Best line I have read so far, and unless the hotel is 100% booked w/ DC attendees I don't see how they are keeping non=DC people out.

Ridiculously priced ? Have you looked at the star power you get compared to smaller cons (which I attend) for the $$ ? 'Does not approach' comes to mind.

Whiners. Seriously. Get over it. You can't throw on a Spiderman outfit and not expect the occasional ribbing. Seeing as how no one is getting slapped with a towel in the high school gym I fail to understand why it is bothering some of you so much. Laugh at them and tell them to fuck off.

Let's see where this goes...

Re: Expectations need to be managed.

[elvishtard.livejournal.com]

To be honest, it IS getting crazily priced. And "star power"...??? Really. Last time I checked, this wasn't Comic Con. You want "star power", go out to San Diego.

I don't make costumes for a convention to get a "ribbing". No one does. You're supposed to be safe at a convention...THAT'S WHY IT'S A CONVENTION. If a costumer can't walk around a convention THEY'RE MEANT TO BE AT, without getting harassed, shit needs to change.

Nobody's whining; more like wanting assurance. And people actually did have issues that were FAR worse than what you call "getting slapped with a towel in a HS gym." Girls were nearly raped for no apparent reason. Gang fights broke out. People were puking all over the damn place. It was mass hysteria last year. Hence why the Marriott shut down all entrances on Saturday night, and there was an insane bottleneck in the walkways from other hotels/Peach Tree Center.

Having attended Dragon*con for nearly 10 years now, it was never as bad as what I've seen in the past 2 years. I believe Dragon*con needs to go back to its roots and be slightly more humble, or it's going to get even more ridiculous.

Public advertisement was a HORRIBLE idea for a place that should be treated more as a haven than a publicity stunt.

[neovenom.livejournal.com]

It's a new year. The staff has had lots of time to think about this issue, which I'm sure they've repeatedly heard about. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt that they'll improve the overall safety of con-goers. That's all I want, an improvement, an effort towards a better situation. And I believe that they will deliver.

[captains-folly.livejournal.com]

I personally want to see a cap on attendees. When will it be enough? Can't imagine the fire marshal being happy with the growth and number of attendees during the weekend.
Make the tickets one price and cap sales, just like Comic Con. Eliminate some of the trouble there. We already fight for hotel rooms in October after con, why not tickets?

That's my opinion and being past staff, its always been brought up.

This is my 10th year, its blown up with word of mouth and Dragon CON advertising its existence.

There are always drunks, trust my we had our own encounters at Dragon Con with our own drunk room mates. It is ridiculous, the consumption of alcohol should not be the reason for you attending Dragon Con, if it is well I imagine your social life is a little lacking.
Whatever, all I'm saying is that Dragon CON has a reputation as of late which is not the family oriented event the board of directors wish it to be.
Plus in the end it will take "ONE" person to ruin it for everyone. I just hope you live long enough for us "nerds" to thrash you to pieces.

[trybutez.livejournal.com]

I imagine that's the ultimate solution... a cap on attendees.

*sigh* I could kick myself for not buying an eternal membership ten years ago...

[littledrow.livejournal.com]

D*C would get more volunteers for security if they would lower their expectations of how much a person MUST volunteer. A lot of the blame I've seen here is getting thrown at Atlanta and the hotels. Let's not forget our own responsibilities. D*C's policies and their pure stubbornness to adhere to them is why all of the new ideas that got thought up never came to be.

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

It will have to be a group effort on all 3 parties. Dragon*con, the hotels, and whatever law enforcement they pay for from the city of Atlanta.

[cuppaco.livejournal.com]

A lot of these post seem to wax nostalgic on what Dragon*Con was/could be/should have been. Dragon*Con has a significant financial impact to the Atlanta area. It is a FOR-PROFIT venture by a private company. To think that it exists soley for our personal fulfillment is naive.

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

Naive? I think that wanting a little bit of reassurance for spending more and more money every year isn't Naive. Are you trying to tell me expecting customer service is naive too? Sure they are a private organization, but that doesn't keep them from having a legal obligation to ensure their con-goers a safe environment. With all the money changing hands, shouldn't some of it be delegated to beefing up security and posting something about it on their web page? Why would it be so hard to place more con security at every entrance to the Marriott asking for either a d*con badge or Marriott Room key? They do it every year at the walk of fame, dealer rooms, and panels. Why not extend that to Marriott entry ways as well after 9pm? If it makes me naive to want to feel safe, then indeed I am naive.

[noitsnotrandal.livejournal.com]

I think security at the entryways won't be as bad as everyone thinks, the word will get out quickly that "they are checking for badges and room keys" and the "gawkers " will get the message. There definitely has to be something done. It wouldn't hurt my feelings if they moved it off labor day weekend. I'll never agree that DC and NCAA football are a good mix.

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

Well said.

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

Over 107 comments and not one of an official member of the D*Con staff confirming anything regarding a change in security. I'm not surprised. Is there anyone I can e-mail about all these concerns?

[littledrow.livejournal.com]

Email contacts lists are on the website. Good luck getting a response! Sincerely! My friend got one response directing her to the people she needed to speak with, including them on the email even, and they never got back to her.

[glasscannon.livejournal.com]

I started attending Dragon*Con in 2009, after years of watching longingly as the pictures popped up on Flickr. Because I'm so new to D*C, I don't have any nostalgia for the "good old days" before the con got too big or whatever. I love that D*C is this huge, this diverse, and having been to other cons including E3, San Diego ComicCon, and BlizzCon out here in southern California, there's really very little I would change about Dragon*Con.

Reading through the comments on this topic, it seems to me that some people have unrealistic expectations of safety. No event that's open to the public, even one that requires a badge to enter, will ever be safe. Expecting it to be safe is just setting yourself up for disaster. Not until you're alone in your hotel room with the door locked behind you should you have any expectation of safety -- and even then, there are precautions that experienced travelers take to ensure their safety.

How many of us would go walking alone, drunk, at 3am through an unfamiliar city? And yet somehow Dragon*Con is supposed to be exempt from the reality that there are assholes in the world? Any basic safety precautions you would use after dark in an unfamiliar location should be used at Dragon*Con -- be aware of your surroundings, travel in a group, have a cellphone on you, etc.

I am in no way trying to blame the victims for their assaults, or deny that there's a problem. Nor am I saying that you shouldn't party at Dragon*Con. Hell, I drink at D*C, stay out late, wear revealing outfits, etc. But I don't get black-out drunk, I never go anywhere alone, and I always build a hidden pocket into even the skimpiest of costumes for my cell phone, room key, credit card, and ID. I have a *great* time, but I also assume my own safety is my responsibility. My friends' safety is my responsibility too, as my safety is their responsibility.

Of course, this isn't a fool-proof guide to not getting assaulted, and I do know that people have been groped and assaulted at Con while still following all the usual safety tips. I just think it's important for us all to be realistic about how much our personal safety is our own responsibility, and how much it is the hotels' or Dragon*Con's responsibility. I'm the only one who can watch out for me 24/7.

[dianne-the-geek.livejournal.com]

There are only so many precautions we can take as individuals. We can travel in groups and keep our eyes open and drink less, but that doesn't help the woman who's groped on an escalator - where she can't get away - or in the crush coming out of the Hyatt ballrooms - where she can't get away - or in an elevator that's suddenly filled with the wrong guys - where she can't get away. Women were assaulted last year in daylight, in crowds, fully clothed, fully sober, etc. Those women took all the 'necessary' precautions and it wasn't enough.

There's only so much that the average con-goer can do short of not attending, and beyond that we have to rely on the con staff and the hotels to help us out.

[debs09.livejournal.com]

Well, last year was our first year there. We've been to both Dragon Con and SDCC. Personally DC is a much better time. And yes, SDCC has alot of big stars there, but you don't get to stand there and have a conversation with them and actually get to know them. You do at DC and to tell the truth, they have some pretty decent guests at DC. I'm very happy with it. The crowds are alot worse at SDCC, I had my butt grabbed a ton of times there. What it basically boils down to is....in a big crowd things are going to happen. People are people be they *jocks* or *nerds* or whatever. There are ignorant,disrespectful people in every form. Most of the people we met last year were awesome people, there to just have a good time. The hotels can only do so much. No one can totally control other peoples actions,the best thing that you can do is NOT go anywhere alone and just be diligent around other people. All we can is try to watch out for each other. And have a good time. Don't let a few ignorant people ruin it for all of us. I for one am not going to let them ruin it for me.

Hey, uhm, about that Edit to the OP:

[jarissa.livejournal.com]

I'm not a mod. I'm not staff. I'm just another member. Sure, I do a lot of the tagging, but that's part of my personal honor code of "contribute to my community in a useful way, lest I lose any right to crab about the conditions".

A few folks may recall my saying, during those post-convention conversations you remember from last September (http://dragoncon.livejournal.com/2537109.html?thread=27282069#t27282069) that I'm opposed to the "frakkin' tourists" being at our Dragon*Con. I carried on a bit about it.

But, speaking as just another member: I'm kind of skeeved about that edit up top. I respectfully and even affectionately ask you to revise it.

I agree with you that we've got a great community discussion going on here. One of the conditions that make it great is that more than one opinion is being rationally represented, and in large numbers. To whit, we've got a lot of posts saying that the issues have already been addressed, and are being addressed still, by Dragon*Con staff; we've got posts relating that others' experiences with specific hotels' staffs have been positive toward D*C conventioneers, or neutral, or negative, or mixed; we've got people talking about what is and what is not a reasonable expectation of hotel and convention security for standards of keeping us safe.

I don't think encouraging people to flood the D*C Contact Form with a copy-and-paste of your original destructively-critical post is a reasonable outgrowth of this discussion. How about a variation with constructive criticism, including measures you'd be willing to support with your own time or resources? Would you, say, be willing to spring for minutes on prepaid cheaptastic cell phones, attached to a Google Number listed on the back of every member badge, that routes directly to D*C Security? Will you pledge two hours of your time as a Goon Squad minion, with no expectation of a cut in your registration price or any other benefit, even if it's two of the hours that your favorite Guest is going to be available for autographs?
I'm just saying, your barrage to Security about wanting this year to be better is going to get you more net results if you include yourself in "how to make it better" rather than pointing as many scowls as you can gather at the people who're supposed to solve it.

Re: Hey, uhm, about that Edit to the OP:

[littledrow.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I winced when I saw that hit my inbox. In all honesty, I do not think spamming them with anything is going to work other than to irritate the piss out of them. We never did get a reply from anyone in charge of security when we offered our constructive criticism with suggestions pertaining to the Goon Squad, etc. That's why I suggested seeking out someone with security at the con and RESPECTFULLY illuminating them to these suggestions, then politely moving along. If they hear it to their faces "I would have volunteered if..." enough times they might take it seriously.

[m-cubicle.livejournal.com]

*Looks on the ground at dead horse that has been beaten* Moving on. Thanks for the great feedback everyone. This was a constructive and thought provoking back and forth. I actually feel better after reading all of the constructive ideas given. Thanks!

[trybutez.livejournal.com]

In all honesty, I do hope you and your girlfriend decide to come! If I drank, I'd suggest you let me buy you a beer... but I don't, so how about I save you a place in line, sometime!

[littlejedi.livejournal.com]

The sad thing about last year was that when I was accosted, I was completely clothed! I was wearing a t-shirt that covered everything, a short fluffy skirt that was long enough to cover my bum, solid black leggings under the skirt, and sneakers. This woman came up to me, grabbed my arm, and practically threw me at her boyfriend b/c she wanted to take me back to their room for a threesome. And my friends wonder why I don't want to do a ripped shirt for my 'Army of Darkness' costume :P

[dulcimeoww.livejournal.com]

I got humped by a random congoer once about two years ago, but while it was surprising, she was a pretty redhead jokingly responding to something I said (or rather, failed to say), and I felt much more flattered than violated. Pretty redheads have that effect on me. #^-^#'

That said... it could easily have been otherwise. What if she had instead been a large man? The exact same behavior could have been frightening, even with the exact same intent behind it. Even as it was, she didn't know that I'm a sucker for pretty redheads, I could equally have had a total aversion to being touched. Yet if she hadn't done that because she was afraid it would be harassment, I would very much have felt the loss. There's always a loss when people become afraid to touch each other.

One thing that must be considered when we're making policy (and that I haven't mentioned in my previous somewhat hardlined posts on the subject) is that it can be genuinely hard to tell what is or is not inappropriate behavior, and there are infinite extenuating circumstances that render the behavior more or less acceptable to the people exposed to it. Who makes that call, and on what criteria is it based? One rather famous policy is that "Consent for sexual behavior must be (a) verbal, (b) mutual, and (c) reiterated for every new level of sexual behavior." Which is great, in theory, but a lot less applicable in practice. So what is the right way of deciding, and how do we outline the rules so that everyone is on the same page, but the party isn't ruined?

[jarissa.livejournal.com]

My personal sorting procedure goes like this:

* "Yes" means "yes". All else is "no".
* At Dragon*Con, it's perfectly logical to ask first. And expect a genuine answer. We're all nerds and geeks together. That works if the question is "May I take your photo?" or "May I practice 'talking to strangers' with you for the next ten minutes?" or "May I hug you?" or "Do you mind if I reach in there and untangle your armor strap?" or "Would you care to go up to my hotel room and be worshipped like the avatar of the divine which you clearly are?" The important thing is to present the question so it's clear that either answer will be respected.

After that, though ... I'd kind of like to see a couple of panels on "Reading Body Language". Watching Lie To Me* has helped. Getting older has helped. Going to D*C for six years has helped. The Backup Project, and links I've followed off that community, have helped. But sometimes, I have no idea what's going on, and a nagging suspicion that I ought to be able to interpret how other people are reacting to the situation with much more detail.

[littledrow.livejournal.com]

Where are you getting this information? According to ESPN, on Thurs Sept 1, 2011 Western Carolina is playing AT Georgia Tech. On the schedule for Sat Sept 3, 2011 is Boise State against Georgia at Atlanta.