Elevators and Disabilities

[cheriedcds.livejournal.com]

This is a friendly public service announcement from Dragon*Con Disability Services.

The elevators in the Hyatt and the Marriott are a problem every year for people with disabilities.   For people with difficulty walking, the elevators are not a convenience, they are a necessity.  Please be considerate; if you CAN take the stairs or escalators, please DO.  If you see someone in a wheelchair, with a cane, or otherwise mobility impaired, please understand that they can’t move as fast as you can.  When the elevator doors open and able bodied folk rush in, the person with the disability is stuck and may end up waiting a very long time.  Please understand too that just because a person does not have an obvious -visible- disability, this does not mean that they have NO disability.  Many disabilities are invisible.  They are no less disabling. 

The elevators seem to be the place where many tempers get very short…  Even when someone loses their temper, please don’t respond to rudeness with more rudeness. 

If you are a person with a disability stuck in an elevator bank and unable to get onto an elevator, please look around the elevator bank for a phone-- this will connect you to hotel staff.  Let them know where you are and what you need.  They should be able to help you.

 

Thank you,

cherie

Dragon*Con Disability Services

Comments

[sparr0.livejournal.com]

Cherie, have you ever considered campaigning for more effective management of the Hyatt elevators? The pleas of individual convention goers to security and other relevant departments fall on deaf ears, but perhaps someone on your side of the fence could sway them?

[cheriedcds.livejournal.com]

DragonCon does not have the authority to manage the elevators. They belong to the Hotel. We can talk to you --our congoers-- about being civil and considerate of others, but we cannot take control of hotel property.

cherie

[sparr0.livejournal.com]

D*C could easily put a requirement for a "fire key" (or five) in the contract with the Hyatt. I've seen it done at other conventions.

Or security could sort people before the board, with separate lines for different [groups of] floors.

Or any of a dozen other solutions with they certainly CAN implement, but don't want to.

one gimp girl's opinion

[paidiraiompair.livejournal.com]

For the last few years, I have volunteered to train "operators" for the elevators, and I can tell you THEN the hotels would be happy to coordinate with the con. I did this professionally for the huge America's Mart conventions, and I promise it would make the world of difference.

If DragonCon wants to expand, they HAVE to learn better crowd control, or the problems will implode the event.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

This is true, although I will point out that just because someone isn't disabled doesn't mean they can necessarily take the stairs. I have exercise-induced asthma, and if I took the stairs I would probably have an asthma attack (yes, even a couple floors). So, while I'd certainly get out of the way for someone disabled, people shouldn't make assumptions about others. I haven't had this problem at Dragoncon so far, mostly because everyone does seem to take the elevators, but it has been an issue at other cons with people trying to force others to take the stairs without finding out if that is even possible.

[lady-kathana.livejournal.com]

Agreed! I'm prone to panic attacks on escalators and in stair wells for absolutely no good reason so I end up on the elevators a lot. I try to let the folks with visible mobility issues go before me as much as I can, but sometimes I need to be somewhere.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

I don't mind getting out of the way. What bugs me are comments or funny looks. Yes, I'm overweight, people. That isn't why I'm taking the elevator. I'm taking it because I like to breathe. And it makes me feel bad for people who are disabled but not visibly so because I'm sure they get comments all the time.

I haven't had a problem so far at dragoncon, but I just want to make sure that monitering the elevators more carefully isn't going to mean policing people who really may have issues that just aren't visible.

[cheriedcds.livejournal.com]

I, too, have medical conditions that make stairs, walking, and standing painful and difficult, although they do not rise to the definition of disability. Unfortunately, we have no control over the assumptions that other people make. We can only do what we have to do, and remain pleasant even when they do not. Then we win. ::smile::

cherie

[abreeskye.livejournal.com]

I have the same issues. My asthma seems to have gotten worse in recent years, too. I've had people with obvious issues get rude with me for getting on an elevator before them, when I'd been waiting twice as long. So the whole thing is frustrating!

[tempest-omouthy.livejournal.com]

THIS SO HARD (the people w/ obv disabilities saying rude things to those of us with less visible ones)! In fact, the only time I've ever personally witnessed someone being rude on the elevators, it was a person on a scooter to me (I have a slew of anxiety issues that make the elevator the lesser of the evils).

[paradisacorbasi.livejournal.com]

I was about to say the same thing. I have asthma, a bad back, and bad knees, so not quite at the level of disability -- yet -- given the fact that the back issue is degenerative, I will probably end up in a wheelchair at some point.

It is encouraging to see that people are standing up for those of us who aren't wheelchair bound but may still need the elevators.

[turbo43097.livejournal.com]

Could a special sticker from Disabled Services be made available at registration to identify those with invisible disabilities? It wouldn't carry any special privilege, but it might cut down on hostilities if people could see that someone without an obvious special need has been vetted as someone who legitimately needs to use the elevators.

[abreeskye.livejournal.com]

I really like this idea!

[cheriedcds.livejournal.com]

That is what we do, already. It does not cut down (much) on the hostilities, from what we hear back from our consumers.

cherie

[glasscannon.livejournal.com]

What exactly is the sticker supposed to do? This will be my 3rd DragonCon, but despite having a collection of invisible health issues, I've never gotten a sticker from Disability Services, because I don't need any considerations for panels. Whether or not I can handle one flight of stairs (much less several) can change from hour to hour. I've yet to run into any judgmental people in elevators (using escalators and staying in the Radius Tower help), but an Invisible Disability Awareness sticker could be a big comfort, even if it doesn't impart any benefits for panels. I would stop by to get a sticker like that, but so far haven't because I didn't know there was a sticker like that!

All that said, both the Hyatt and the Marriott (and the other hotels) have extensive escalator systems, and many of us who can't handle stairs can handle escalators just fine. A person with a wheelchair or powerchair, or pushing a stroller, or with anxiety triggered by escalators, etc, can't. I try to take the escalators whenever I can, to avoid adding my body to the elevator crowds, but also because standing to wait for an elevator is often as bad as climbing a flight of stairs for me. Thankfully the Radius Tower elevators are roomkey activated and never crowded, so getting to my room isn't an issue. But other than those elavators, in the last two years I've managed to only use the hotel elevators *once* in two years, to get to a room party. It really is possible to get around completely on the escalators.

[cheriedcds.livejournal.com]

The stickers primarily allow you to get into accessible seating in the panels. If you do not need accessible seating, the stickers do not do much for you. You can look at our list of services from a recent post here on LJ. If you don't need any of those, you don't need a sticker.

cherie

[glasscannon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I guess that's exactly my point though. I don't go to the large panels as a general rule, and I would never, ever wait in line for a panel. That's based both on my own health and energy and on my interests. So I've never taken the time to get a disability sticker, despite the fact that in normal day to day life, I'm disabled to the point of not being able to work full time.

But DragonCon is bigger than just panels, and there are those of us with invisible disabilities that might really need nothing more than a sticker to help explain why we need priority on an elevator, even though we look "fine". Or why we could really use that last seat in a standing-room-only panel or party. Or why we really really need to skip to the front of the long bathroom line. Or any number of "but you don't LOOK sick!" prejudice moments that those of us with invisible health issues face constantly.

Invisible health issues range from constant to infrequent, disabling to annoying, common to unheard of, embarrassing or not, difficult to explain or not, and affect every conceivable part of the human body and mind. There's no way that Disability Services can cover all of them, and for many of us we're more than accustomed to making allowances for ourselves, and don't really need any special help from the Con. (IE, if I need to make sure no one jostles my painful, easily dislocated hips, I'll find an aisle seat and have my husband take the chair next to me, even if that means sitting in the back of the room. When, not if, I get exhausted in the middle of the day, I'll go back up to my room for a nap -- my room in the Radius Tower, which I book every year *specifically* because I know I won't have to wait for an elevator.)

But a sticker to say "hey, I may look 'fine', but looks can be deceiving", even without any specific allowances made for us by the Con, could be a help and a comfort to many of us, it sounds like. Of course it won't stop hostilities immediately, but it could help raise awareness within fandom that not everyone with a health issue is in a wheelchair, which could hopefully reduce hostility towards invisible issues over time.

[encarmencita.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this announcement. I will double my efforts to be more aware of this issue and to try to help those who might need the elevator more badly than I. I already take the stairs whenever I can because even at my languorous gait, they tend to be faster than the elevators. ;)

[charismaryllis.livejournal.com]

yep, i've already got my knee braces packed; i always try to get a room on a lower floor so i can leave the elevators for the non-stair-able folk. (last year a vet and i sat outside the mariott and compared knee braces for a few minutes. :-) at least the hilton stairwells were a little less sticky than usual. ;-)

and of course, as fandom ages, there is only going to be a greater need for elevators.

[tonyalittegirl.livejournal.com]

Thanks for posting this :) This year will be my dad's first year and I hope he does not have a bad experience.

Limping Costumer

[shivilowy.livejournal.com]

This thread is very helpful and I got one thing to say if you see a limping Sith Lady or Bellatrix Lestrange that will be me.I have artristus in my knees and sad to say I got this early when I was 18yrs old I'm 25 now.I do have a question do i need to go anywhere to get a special sticker for my knees?

Re: Limping Costumer

[cheriedcds.livejournal.com]

Disability Services is just outside on-site registration in the Sheraton.

cherie

Re: Limping Costumer

[shivilowy.livejournal.com]

Thanks I will stop by to tell them about my disability and I believe i will be using the elevators alot thanks for your help Cherie -SillyC aka colleen

[kernsville.livejournal.com]

My wife is confined to an electric wheelchair, and I can say that raising the awareness of this *IS* slowly making an impact on the general Con-Going public over the past few years.

There are many times that an elevator full of people will just look sheepishly at us, but half the time someone on board WILL make an announcement for people who are only going to the next floor to make room, and that's usually all it takes.

Keep it up!

thank you for pointing out some issues may not be seen

[soliscjw.livejournal.com]

A few years ago I severely broke my ankle and have had problems with arthritis and while walking is fine I walk 1 1/2 miles to and from work even when the arthritis is flaring I can manage but stairs are a whole different story in a emergency I could make it down stairs but it is to painful to go up when it flares up and because of that there some days I can and do take the stairs and I do but trying to take the elevators on the days I am having problems and getting challenged on why I am taking them verses the stairs when they say me take the stairs earlier that day or on the day before and trying to explain

Re: thank you for pointing out some issues may not be seen

[shivilowy.livejournal.com]

I agree the going up stairs does hurt and i will most likely be using the elevators and possibly escalatorsI.I will pack my artritus meds for sure so I can handle this cause I dont wanna get left out being this is my very first con.

Re: thank you for pointing out some issues may not be seen

[glasscannon.livejournal.com]

Hey there! Since you mentioned it's your first con and you have arthritis, I thought I'd share a couple of the tips I've picked up doing DragonCon with joint issues the last two years.

First, definitely pack your medication, and keep on whatever medication schedule you have at home. If you're coming from a different timezone, be sure to adjust that schedule to the timezone in Atlanta. Bring extra medication if you can, in the original prescription bottles, with your name, your doctor's name, and your pharmacy's phone number on it if at all possible. The last thing you want is to accidentally spill all your meds on the bathroom floor and have to try to get through the weekend without any. Having the original bottle will help you get replacement meds, if you need to. I also like to take at least one dose with me wherever I go, so I don't have to go back to the room to take medication.

Second, if your joints can handle escalators, they're definitely the easier and quicker way to get around all the main Con areas. The Hyatt has escalators between all the lower floors, where the panel rooms are. The Marriott has two sets of escalators between all the "Atrium" floors where the ballrooms and panel rooms are, one set on the Hyatt side by the sailboat bar, and one set on in the "back" on the Hilton side. They're usually jam packed during the evening hours, but quicker and (usually) less painful than waiting for an elevator. The Westin also has escalators, but generally the elevators at the Hilton, Sheraton, and Westin aren't nearly as crowded as those at the Hyatt and Marriott.

Third and most important: REST! DragonCon is a 24/7 Con, from Thursday evening (unofficially, Friday morning officially) to late Monday afternoon, there's always something going on. Panels run from 9am to midnight roughly, with concerts and parties going until 3am or even later, and the gaming rooms never shut down. There's always going to be something to do or see at any hour of the day, often three or five things you really really want to do at the exact same time. But it's important to pace yourself and rest regularly, at least as much as you would at home, if not more. Personally, I schedule a nap into every afternoon (I'm 30 now and have had joint issues since I was 22, and health issues since I was 11, for reference) so that I can stay up later at night without wearing myself out, and then sleep in in the morning as well. But when you decide to rest will be based on what sorts of things you want to do, and when those things are scheduled. I also really enjoy finding a comfortable spot to sit and just people-watching, especially in the evenings when the costumes start coming out. Or even just camping out in a panel room for a specific track you like, rather than running from one thing to the next, can be restful.

Other than that, read up on general tips for DragonCon (the wiki (http://dragon-con.pbworks.com/w/page/18183835/FrontPage) and ne0ven0m's blog (http://ne0ven0m.blogspot.com/) are good resources). Eat well, shower often, wear comfortable, broken-in shoes, and take your vitamins -- *especially* if your arthritis is tied to your immune system at all. Just go easy on yourself, and you'll have a great time!

[drkvampirelupin.livejournal.com]

As long as the people in the scooters and wheelchairs don't attempt to run everyone else over when they haven't even been waiting at all, I'm fine. Just because you're disabled doesn't mean you get to skip the line (especially since many using it may be invisible disabled). Don't act entitled to the elevator just because you're on wheels.

[filkertom.livejournal.com]

Let me explain something to you: The biggest problem with the hotel elevators is that, impatient to get to room parties or whatever, many people go down to go up.

This means that, for instance, when I am on the third basement of the Hyatt just outside the motor pool, having just finished up my concert and taking my mobility scooter to the elevator, I have to wait for the elevator just like everyone else... except that, when the elevator opens, I see a bunch of people who, having taken the elevator to the bottom, are not getting off but going up.

One of them has even said I should take the stairs. A little tricky, on that scooter.

We can't slip easily into a crowded elevator, especially when no one's getting off the damn thing.

There's also the problem for those of us who are also on drugs with a schedule, or who might be having a diabetic sugar crash, or something similar. Those folks have to get to their meds.

Yeah, we're asking for a little privilege. It is, however, based on the needs of our continued health. And most of it wouldn't be necessary, if people didn't freakin' go down to go up.

[glasscannon.livejournal.com]

The down-to-go-up issue is separate from disability, as it affects everyone trying to use the elevator. A solution to the crowding and the mentality of "get on whatever elevator shows up first, no matter what" is something for the larger con to address, not disability services.

That said, the rest of your post only goes to prove drkvampirelupin's point about "wheeled privilege". Those in wheelchairs and scooters ARE NOT the only people with disabilities! They are not the only people who have medication schedules to keep, or who can experience a health issue that requires immediate access to a room and thus priority on the first available elevator. Hell, you mention someone having a diabetic crash, which could very well be an invisible disability.

If you roll up to a crowded elevator bay where multiple people have been waiting since before you got there, who should get priority for the elevator? If you're not experiencing any immediate, urgent issues, should you still get priority, simply because you're in a scooter? What about the pale, shaking girl who has been waiting quietly? Ever stop to think that she might be having a diabetic crash, and needs to get to her room ASAP?

Exactly what is it that gives you priority over someone with an invisible disability? Or makes you think you can judge the health and ability of anyone else waiting for an elevator?

Bottom line is that invisible disabilities are just as painful, chronic, and DISABLING as visible ones, and often more embarrassing. And you will never, EVER know who has one by looking at a person. That's why they're called "invisible". If you have a real need to get an elevator absolutely as quickly as possible, then let the other people waiting know, let the down-to-go-up people know. Don't assume that because you're the only one with a visible health issue, you're the only one who has a health issue.

[veracity]

What about the pale, shaking girl who has been waiting quietly? Ever stop to think that she might be having a diabetic crash, and needs to get to her room ASAP?

It's almost like you know me. Seriously, there are times when the con's schedule and chaos cause my diabetes to crash under me. I never ask for anything from anyone unless I absolutely look like I'm ready to pass out (pale, shaking, sweaty, glass-eyed). Just because I look abled doesn't mean at that time I am. I keep my medicine with me, all the time, but if I'm crashing I need to the opposite: straight to food, do not stop or collect $200. Even if it's just a hamburger vendor should I not be in my hotel and can get room service straight away. I try my best to avoid it but over-stimulation can cause the crash. I can't carry the hamburger with me and sometimes my ever present granola bars aren't enough because I've been waiting too long to get where I need to. I do take the escalators and stairs if it's not bad enough but it's not always the case.

That is the only time I proceed to assume I should be a priority because if I don't fix it soon, I can and have passed out when not at the con. I have blanked out for four hours in my hotel room at the con because of my sugars when I was alone. (That's the time the Hyatt room service people got my coke from the vending machine for me because I couldn't walk the 16 feet from my room and back again...after it took me 20 minutes to get that far the first time. I needed sugar that quickly in order to eat a half hour later.) I don't expect to get special treatment all the time because I don't want it. I just want people to be aware there are times I absolutely need to get food in me in order to be not unconscious, which means I need to get to the destination quickly. It's another reason I often order in room service by Sunday night because it's the quickest route to solid food. And breakfast.

[cheriedcds.livejournal.com]

Please reread this part of the initial post:

If you are a person with a disability stuck in an elevator bank and unable to get onto an elevator, please look around the elevator bank for a phone-- this will connect you to hotel staff. Let them know where you are and what you need. They should be able to help you.

As director of Disability Services, I cannot give you head of the line privileges ANYWHERE. (The disability line going in first to main programming events is done on security authority, not mine.) The hotel CAN. If you absolutely HAVE to get to your room for meds or whatever, use the phone in the elevator bank and get the hotel staff to help you. THEY can commandeer an elevator. THEY can take you another route.

You are asking the CON to make the HOTEL accessible. The hotel makes the hotel accessible, the Con makes the Con accessible. There are some areas of overlap, but for the most part we are two separate entities.

Look at the conversation here-- we have disabled people fussing at disabled people. If we cannot even understand each other, how do we expect people who know nothing about disabilities to do any better?

cherie

[veracity]

Sorry but I think anyone that looks to pass out deserves priority regardless. I'm aware enough at con or not to think of others. How dare I think others do the same.

Next time I will just sit down and shut up since I'm just going to get scolded like a child when simply agreeing and supporting another comment. Especially as a diabetic, which is something I'm intimately aware of as it effects everything I do at times. Might as well remain invisible. My list is getting awfully long. What's one more space.

[cheriedcds.livejournal.com]

I am not scolding anyone. I wasn't even specifically addressing you (singular) as an individual, veracity. I am saying you (plural) are missing a point of information. =I= can't get you on an elevator unless I am standing right there and physically take command of the situation. I could TRY that, but there is no guarantee those people will listen to me. No sticker Disability Services has or can make will make the people on a crowded elevator look at you and suddenly have an attack of consideration and let you on. If people are not going to be nice, I can't change that. Disability Services is not the answer to this problem. The hotel staff CAN HELP YOU. There is a phone somewhere in the bank of elevators. If anyone with a disability has an emergency and MUST get to their room, use that phone and call for help. If anyone with a disability waits more than a reasonable amount of time and can't get on an elevator, use that phone and call for help.

cherie

[ronofthedead.livejournal.com]

A note to my fellow diabetics. Try and carry whatever remedy you need to carry for high/low sugar with you. I had a sugar crash at con and waiting on the elevatoe is not an option.It was not because people would not let me on, but by time an elevator got there I was already in trouble. Fortunately the Red Sonja coming off of the elevator was an RN and she helped me and I was right as rain in 15 minutes ,but it could have gone bad. Nowadays, I carry one of those blue cold packs in a insulated lunch bag with my insulin and keep my glucose tabs on me at all times.

[drkvampirelupin.livejournal.com]

If anyone, regardless of if they're on wheels or not, is having a medical reason (diabetic crash as mentioned below, or need to get to their pills asap) to need elevator service that quickly--as in it's so dire you just CANNOT WAIT--then I would suggest saying something to the crowd on the elevator. Most people who attend Dragon*con are good people and quite understanding, and I think if you were to loudly say something like "I NEED MY MEDICINE ASAP" people might let you in before them.

The only issue I can see there is that some people might see that it gets you in quicker and might abuse the idea.

[adolla.livejournal.com]

There was a point last year, or maybe the year before where hotel staff took over the elevators in the Hyatt for a few hours. They made people get off at the bottom floor stopping the whole, go down to go up thing, and things ran smoothly. It would be nice if there was some way to have the elevator staffed by the hotel during peak hours like that. I'm sure it's impractical though.

[krystalblade.livejournal.com]

This will be my 11th Dragon*Con. Each year I spent more and more time in my room in agony. After leaving early in 2009, I decided I had a choice: give up the con (no f**king way!) or get mobility ad.

In 2010 I happily scooted around without any problems. I did not get a disability sticker. I went through the pre-reg line, just like everyone else. I didn't take advantage of being on a scooter to skip ahead since the rule is for those who 'can't stand long or make tight turns'. (and for all of you who picked on me about the battery dying in line - it lasted until 11:00 pm - so there.)

I am very upset at all the 'wheel advantages bashing'. Trust me, by all that you may hold Holy, WE'D RATHER HAVE TWO GOOD LEGS!! (or lungs, or hearts, or whatever else keeps us from walking) I had to hear all the 'it must be nice' snide comments. Yes, it is nice since I can still go to the con. Scooting has given me back my freedom, something that I thought I had lost.

Now for all you with invisible disabilities who have been complaining here, let me inform you of something you may not be aware of: most of the time if there is a mobility problem, there is also an invisible problem. We may also need to get back to our rooms RIGHT NOW for the same reason that you do. You are taking it for granted that just walking is the only problem. Are you not succumbing to the same blindness you have been accusing others of having?

By the way, last year I had to let several elevators go by because there wasn't room for the scooter - while there was room for another person. I also had people run ahead of me even when I was waiting longer. Didn't worry all that much as I planned a head and carried whatever I needed for 'just in case'.

The D*C people are not there to take care of us like a bunch of babies, but to organize the coolest four day party. Take responsibility for yourself. Only you really know what is needed, so only you can make the proper plans to deal with it.