Regarding the Marriott Atrium Level/"sailboat bar"...

[maryryanbogard.livejournal.com]

A lot of people (myself included) are already planning gatherings/photoshoots for D*C 2010, and I'll be happy to keep a compiled list like I've done since 2008. However, there is a big issue that needs to be addressed before too many gatherings get too deep in planning: the Atrium Level of the Marriott. The Atrium Level is the floor right above (i.e. one flight up from) the main lobby. This is where the skywalk connecting the Marriott to the Peachtree Center food court/the Hyatt begins/ends. This is also home to Pulse (better known as the "sailboat bar"), Sear (a restaurant and sports bar), and the Atrium Ballroom (home to many of the really big panels). It is also where far too many groups decide to hold their gatherings/photoshoots. Regardless of how big the group itself is, this adds to the already-present crowding issues.

Getting through the Atrium Level was a nightmare. One couldn't even get to the bar itself! Last year I tried (mostly unsuccessfully) to discourage gatherings there after too many decided to use that location. I say "mostly unsuccessfully" because the only group that heeded my advice was the combined Bleach/Death Note/Naruto group- more power to them, I say. There is a reason I tried to discourage so many gatherings/photoshoots from using that area, and why I don't host any gatherings/photoshoots there myself. No, the new direct (i.e. not going through the food court) walkway will not alleviate this problem- it's to begin/end "on first floor of the Marriott Marquis, above lobby level", which is the Atrium Level. Even if it didn't people will still want to get cheap food, and it doesn't solve the issue of the big panels and people actually wanting to patronize the bar(s).

Please, for the love of any and all deities, DO NOT HOST ANY GATHERINGS ON THE ATRIUM LEVEL OF THE MARRIOTT! Instead, please consider the 10th floor of the Marriott or the Hilton patio/back porch for your photoshoots/gatherings. Both of those places are easy enough to get to, are on host hotel property, and there's enough room for large gatherings and even two gatherings at the same time can easily work something out in either location. There is also Hardy Ivy Park, a public park not on SunTrust property that has become a somewhat popular location in recent years. There are also the many (other) locations sparr0  went through the trouble of scouting out for us- not much if anything would have changed between now and then (and if so, if anyone can provide an updated list with pics, be my guest). Yes, I know about the SunTrust's restrictions and the paranoid security guards at the Peachtree Center courtyard, but those aren't the only alternatives. If you submit a gathering to the list with "Sear bar" "sailboat bar", "Marriott Atrium" "Marriott bar", or anything else along those lines as a location, you will be asked both on the list thread and your gathering thread to reconsider locations, otherwise your gathering WILL NOT BE ADDED.

"But I don't want my group to be away from everybody!" "Nobody will know we're there!" "We won't get as many photographers and/or cosplayers!" Face it, folks: only a very small percentage of D*C attendees are represented here and/or the D*C subforum on Cosplay.com (where this has been cross-posted). At least 90% of the con-going populace as a whole is not interested in your photoshoot, and is unlikely to suddenly take an interest when you're causing/exacerbating a human traffic jam. Well, other than getting angry/frustrated with your group and the photographers, and do you really want that kind of interest?

"We're not that big a group!" "Only the initial meetup will be there; we'll move once we've all assembled, we promise!" Doesn't matter; you're still blocking traffic and still annoying pretty much anybody who didn't cheerfully respond to your planning thread(s)- again, that's like 90% of D*C attendees (and everyone else in the hotel whether they're there for D*C or not).

Look at this way: some diners have this thing where people can bring in their old cars to show off in the diner parking lot. Suppose someone decided to hold the event in the middle of a busy interstate highway in the thick of rush hour, "justifying" this with the excuse that not that many people come to the diner to check out the classic cars/few otherwise would know about the event. In the end, the majority of people on the road are not going to take interest. In fact, most would get angry and frustrated- even if they otherwise do have an interest in old cars.

If you're that worried, I have every intention of seeing what I can negotiate with D*C publications or whoever else within the D*C hierarchy I may need to contact and see about getting the list into the Daily Dragon or something. Atlanta's other big con, Anime Weekend Atlanta (AWA), actually gave out a flier with the list of gatherings/photoshoots at the con last year (or so I've heard)- maybe something like that to be given out at registration/all information booths. This will likely mean that I will have to move the cut-off date and time for new submissions and changes to the list to much sooner than in previous years (which I'd have to do anyway because I'm road-tripping it this year), but small price to pay.

Thank you for your cooperation.

P.S.: the Hyatt bar is not a viable location for gatherings either- that's where the new skywalk will begin/end, and the crowding there (with or without the photography restrictions imposed by the Hyatt) was always pretty bad, too. Speaking of hotel-imposed restrictions, I would not blame the Marriott in the least if they banned photography on the Atrium Level altogether.

Comments

[keita-yuki.livejournal.com]

TY! for posting this.. I cant begin to express how much of a pain in the @$$ it was trying to get around the mob that basicly refused to move last yr that was in the Marriott by the Pulse bar.

Ppl seemed to get into the mode of "I finally found a spot to stand, I refuse to move." Those of us who needed to get to our rooms couldnt. I go so annoyed that when ppl kept doing photoshoots and basicly you dont wanna be rude and walk into a camera area and they didnt think to give a path area where ppl could walk without disturbing photos.

If ppl are doing that this yr I will not be polite. I will walk right into your photo if it means getting to the elevators. Im sick of trying to find a way via the maze of human statues and camera flashes.


The 10th Floor is big for many groups at once. Baicly pick a spot of tables between the pillars.. That way many groups get a spot. And each pillar section has 4-6 tables so theres plently of places to sit and put yr stuff... Also you could scoot the tables to one side for stuff stashing and the other for photoshoots.

THese groups only think of themeselves, they dont think of the ppl with canes, wheelchairs, strollers, ect. If the area was made for limited seating and as a walkway please let it be exactly that.


That or odds are the fire marshall will pay attention to that area as it bogs with ppl and everything there will get shut down and then no one can have any fun. Do we want that? Heck no. So ppl please I beg you... Go to a diffrent (and prettier) photoshoot location.


ALso the flyer idea would be nice. Or have it as a insert int he program. SO we all know.. But that means groups must inform BEFORE where they will be and not change their minds.

[glasscannon.livejournal.com]

I definitely get what you're saying and have been caught in the bottleneck by Sear before myself. But like I said down below, how would moving to the 10th floor help? Sure, your walkway to the elevators might be *slightly* more clear, but the lines for the elevators would be a lot longer, with everyone riding up and back from the 10th floor.

I think efforts to move costuming groups to the more open areas of the Atrium (not just the carpeted area between Sear and the ballroom, but around the back as well, and on the other escalator-accessible floors) could really help. But encouraging people to move to the 10th floor just creates an even worse bottleneck at the elevators -- not to mention people getting pushy and upset because after a half an hour they haven't gotten an elevator and are now going to miss their meetup.

[keita-yuki.livejournal.com]

Well the 10th floor isnt the only solution.. But everyone standing near the boat bar and refusing to move cause they finally got a spot isnt working.

Im just worried the fire marshal will blow his whistle on that area.


Theres plenty of other spots to go to. That and a clear area to walk should be put into pratice so ppl wanting to get to places can with little hassle.

[maryryanbogard.livejournal.com]

I just want to say thank you. I, too, have fire marshal-related concerns that perhaps I didn't convey very well. That's the main thing, not any selfishness on my part.

[keita-yuki.livejournal.com]

After last yrs crowd issues... Im really worried the fire marshall will be paying attention to the Marriott. Then we all loose. :(

[gypsywitch.livejournal.com]

This is an excellent post, and definitely gives me a few ideas of where to take some photos. Thanks!

[eidolon-bird.livejournal.com]

THIS THIS SO VERY MUCH THIS.

One of my friends had plans to join up with the Final Fantasy/Kingdom Hearts group last year, so we parted ways and agreed to meet up in a few hours.  Not twenty minutes later, she was back with the rest of us.  She said she couldn't even move through the chaotic mess, much less find any of the cosplayers she was looking for.  Between the bar, the huge panels, and both the exhibition halls and the dealer's room, the Marriott is a freaking zoo and not really all that great for meet-ups and photoshoots.

As for the "but no one will find out about our gathering if we go elsewhere!" argument:
A) No one can find the gatherings anyway because it's so crowded.
B) Another year like last year and I foresee the fire marshal and the staff cracking down on photography at the Marriott the same way they used to do at the Hyatt, and groups will be forced to go elsewhere.
C) As a cosplayer, I'm far more likely to find out about an event because I pass someone in the hallway, they notice my costume and invite me to the gathering at such-and-such time and place.
D) While additional attention is always nice, I would rather have a nice backdrop for photos and space to move around.  White walls, harsh lighting and racks of wine don't exactly provide a great atmosphere for most of the costumes I have planned.

[noelleleithe.livejournal.com]

Just FYI, individual groups can submit gathering plans to the Daily Dragon to run in the parties section. Most won't go in print (space is very, very limited), but they can be published on the website. I'm not sure whether this would work for a compiled list, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Handing out a separate list is probably also a good idea, but keep in mind that budget and staff are limited. Contacting publications would be the way to go to find out about doing it in an official capacity, but if that doesn't work out, there are also plenty of locations around the con where you could drop off you own fliers.

[jarissa.livejournal.com]

Amen.

I got (momentarily, thank the Powers!) trapped about two steps below the top of the moving escalator, because the people in front of my husband couldin't move due to people in front of THEM stopping to take pictures of a costume group. I actually thought the Transformers costumers were pretty awesome, but not awesome enough for reverse calisthenics, much less injuries.

[nyreak.livejournal.com]

This. We had issues just getting off of the escalator several times last year. Huge safety issue.

[myras-girls.livejournal.com]

10th floor is the way to go. If more groups gather there for photos, more people will stop by to take pics. Until last year I had no idea there was so much space up there! And people were definitely hanging out there without a specific purpose. It seemed like people stopped by when they noticed other people there and wanted to see what was happening.

Last year I wanted to stop, admire and get a pic of some of the great costumes but stopping was nearly impossible and/or I didn't want to be the person that was holding up anyone else.

Great Post!

[ladyvalkris.livejournal.com]

2008 was our first D*C and we waere introduced to the 10th Floor area @ the Marriott by some kids who saw our daughters and told them about it.

It is quiet, open and spacious. Last years Genetic Opera photo op was a hoot. And in 2008 there was a hugh Final Fantasy shoot there as well.

Last year multiple groups met there and on occasion there was SOME wait time but overall everyone was gracious and patient.

We actually went up there a few times just to rest. ;-)

It would be great if the word could get out about this.

[elvishtard.livejournal.com]

While I definitely support these ideas, and tend to look for group gathering spots that AREN'T in traffic-y areas, most groups want their group gatherings to be out in the crowds for people to see.

I, too, agree that the Pulse Bar is a horrible spot -_-. I was in the Watchmen group last year that gathered there, and there wasn't really any good place to stand where your pictures wouldn't be walked through. Or someone would shoot you a look that wreaked: "Well this is the only place I have to walk through and I don't want to go around to the left. NO I WON'T DO IT."

Luckily, there is a HUGE carpeted area, directly to the left of the escalators on that level. Save for when there's a UBER!Panel in the ballroom, that space can be used efficiently for many groups. As well as the back of that area, where the Marvel/DC people usually meet up.

Unfortunitely, since the Marriott is the only 'wide-open' area, still allowing pictures to be taken (*eyes the stupid Hyatt -_-*), most people flock there. That, combined with readily flowing booze and the fact that alot of people choose the Marriott as the choice hotel to room at con, crowding is a serious issue. But we all know that by now -_-.

But yes, I definitely suggest the 10th floor (when it doesn't get shut down for the dumbest of reasons -_-), or other little spots that you've listed. There's no way to stop impromtu shoots though. I can't tell you the number of times I'll run into someone with a costume that matches mine, and a heavy aray of photos start to snap, and you don't move for the next 30 minutes from that spot.

I would plea to fellow costumers, to stake out the most effient spot at the time. Look to where the crowd is flowing. Make sure that your spot isn't blocking an enterance/exit. Ask yourself, "Is this a big enough area to fit everyone in my group, fit photographers and STILL allow for con goers to pass, without trouble?"

If that all complies with the situation, then you my friend have yourself a good spot for pics!

[fieryredhead.livejournal.com]

Luckily, there is a HUGE carpeted area, directly to the left of the escalators on that level. Save for when there's a UBER!Panel in the ballroom, that space can be used efficiently for many groups. As well as the back of that area, where the Marvel/DC people usually meet up.

That carpeted area fills up VERY quickly with people even without planned groups there. If people plan groups there it will without a doubt spill over to in front of the escalators & cause the past traffic jams people mentioned above. Bad, bad idea.

[elvishtard.livejournal.com]

That's why I would hope that people would have common sense and see that a reasonably big crowd is already in that area, and migrate to a wider space. Though, that's in a logical world...

Also, I wouldn't entirely blame the costumers. I would say its more of a problem of people piddling about, drinking or just standing in one place. Photographers, 9 times out of 10, take their shot and go. Then theres those people that stand in the middle of walk ways, their eyes trailing off or with a drink in hand acting like the lobby (no where NEAR the bars) is 'da club'.

I would also think that seasoned DConners would learn to maneuver around crowds. I know I have. If you have to push someone who just won't budge, I say push 'em. I can not STAND people who aren't even getting their picture taken that just stand right in the middle of a path. I figure the phrase 'DDURRRR' should be spewing out of their mouth.

But again, in a logical world...

[fieryredhead.livejournal.com]

Ah... if everything was logical. ;)

As a avid costumer (I usually bring about 8-10 costumes each year) and a Dcon goer of 10+ years now I consider it my responsibility to do everything I can not cause traffic jams. If someone asks for a photo of me I try to step out of the way of traffic & make sure the photographer is as well.

FYI, I *totally* hang out in that carpeted area, drink in hand. I'm just saying for someone to plan to have a costume group meet there is not a great idea. Meet on the first floor of the Marriott or the 10th floor. Meet on one of the lower Hyatt floor (not the lobby). If you are arranging a group you can arrange photographers to get the shots you want.

As for pushing people out of the way, sure no problem but when you are on the escalator and have people coming up behind you and a traffic jam in front? THAT is a bad bad thing. So to plan any group in close proximity to an entrance/exit of the escalators is no bueno.

[maryryanbogard.livejournal.com]

I don't entirely blame the costume groups myself, but they certainly don't help the situation.

[dark-blade.livejournal.com]

One photographer takes their shot and moves on, generally, yes. But it's not one or two, it's people stopping and starting as well.

Hell, there really isn't a general place for photos of late night costumers anymore, which.. well, really sucks. My girlfriend and I dressed up in not-for-the-kids costumes and were running around at 2-3am a couple of years ago and the Hyatt was... dead. The Marriott was largely drunk crowds and space compression. We talked to a few other people running around in similar getup that I would rate as -quite- attractive who sighed a bit wistfully and agreed that their plans of camera mischief had fallen pretty flat as well.

[don3172.livejournal.com]

Deeb, anytime you want to do camera mischief, feel free to call me. ;)

DonC

[mir280.livejournal.com]

I love this idea but there is also a flaw. Last year I was on the atrium level hanging out and people watching, taking pics and trying to decide where to go next with my group. We were in our costumes that kind of go together (from the same general time period) and people would stop to take pictures of us. It wasn't like we planned that. We were just hanging out but wherever there are people in costume others are going to want to stop and take pics. It's just the nature of the con.

Having said that, I agree that much sought after groups should plan a place to meet up and have a photo shoot that isn't in the thick of everything. It certainly makes it easier to find the groups I want pics of! At the same time, people need to know that sometimes photo shoots aren't planned and still happen so don't get totally ticked off every time you see it happening on the main floors. :)

[ladyvalkris.livejournal.com]

I'm assuming that not only do the cos-play groups want to take pics of themselves but relish the idea of other con goers appreciating their hard work and have pics taken of them by the rest of us.

Lord knows how many stopped us. (and I hope for good reasons) lololol

However, with D*C getting so crowed in just the past few years, there aren't going to be many places where groups can congregate and not stop traffic. Tenth Floor is a viable option. Yes the wait for elevators can be lengthy but it's going to be lenghty regardless of hotel and time.

I think each group should work diligently to communicate within ranks and just rely on past experiences to decide where to do photo-ops.

However around the bar is a no-go. We just want to have fun and enjoy the nightlife and having to be stuck in place for a group is no fun.

If your group looks good, TRUST ME, you will have your photos taken whether its by the bar or in a less congested area.

[sparr0.livejournal.com]

Even if you insist on staying in the Marriott, there are other better locations. Try the awesome staircases in the Marquis Towers?

[maryryanbogard.livejournal.com]

For everyone's information the first pic is in Tower II, accessible by the skywalk that leads to the Hyatt via the Peachtree Center food court. Start from the Hyatt or food court, walk towards the Marriott, but don't make that last right turn into the main open area of the Marriott. Instead, continue forward into Tower II and go downstairs.

The second pic is Tower I, accessible from that same skywalk. Again, start from the Hyatt or food court, but when you come to the first set of elevators (near the guard's desk under the hanging fixture (chandelier? sign?) that looks sort of like an upside down Mayan pyramid), go downstairs rather than continue on to the Marriott.

Do keep in mind that those are office buildings (not SunTrust, but offices nonetheless). Some have reported no difficulty there at any time throughout the duration of D*C and that they were never dark or locked during the day. Others have reported strict security and that Friday day was the only time they weren't locked. My only personal experience was accidentally wandering into Tower II on the Friday of D*C 2008 (yes, I was lost). All that said, those areas are probably best for small, maybe medium-sized groups meeting during the day (like before 5) on Friday.

[materpenitentia.livejournal.com]

I really can't believe how bad that got (on both boards), esp when you're just suggesting a logical thing for big groups.
I really don't see why anyone should have even been upset
1. it's your list so whatever you want to put on it should be up to your specs
2. if they want their group to be on a list and insist on Marriott Atrium, they have the option of making their own list or posting on the website

[maryryanbogard.livejournal.com]

"Dissenting"/"objecting" comments that are still up and always have been:

http://community.livejournal.com/dragoncon/2298333.html?thread=24676573#t24676573

http://community.livejournal.com/dragoncon/2298333.html?thread=24677853#t24677853

http://community.livejournal.com/dragoncon/2298333.html?thread=24672989#t24672989

http://community.livejournal.com/dragoncon/2298333.html?thread=24674525#t24674525

I might have left two others alone, but for the tone of both and in the case of a repost it a statement much like the ones that had caused the deletion in the first place had been added.