Now that Dragon*Con 2009 is part of the history books...

[thedrunkenjedi.livejournal.com]

...as a follow-up to a previous post from a few weeks back, "Has Dragon*Con become too big for its own good?".

There was no real consensus-one way or another-but we left off promising to revisit the question after the *Con.

So, again, now that D*C '09 is a thing of the past, what is opinion of all who attended '09-and at least one additional year for comparison? I'll chime in with my take on things once a few responses come through.

Comments

[rosewalker.livejournal.com]

I don't know... but I think it has gotten too big for me. I still had a good time but it definitely didn't feel like a vacation as it has in years past. But I'm probably just getting old & crotchety. *waves cane* "You kids! Get out of my hamster tunnel!"

[muerandah.livejournal.com]

I didn't think it was as crowded as years past. I mean we actually were in all 4 hotels over the weekend. I don't think we waited more than 5 minutes for an elevator.

[geneticlemon.livejournal.com]

Yikes, I think you were lucky. My friends and I were in the Marriott and we waited up to 20 or 30 minutes for elevators, and we didn't have the option of taking the stairs since we were on the 23rd floor. We tried taking the stairs down once, but it took us half an hour anyways.

[charismaryllis.livejournal.com]

it's way big. bigger than the last couple years.

i don't think it's yet too big for its own good though; i was still able to get around ok and got into just about everything i tried to get into.

but it's definitely big...

[deborak]

This was my eighth year. I actually thought the hotel spaces were emptier of wall-to-wall people than at past D*Cs. Big disclaimer, though: I am not interested in celebrity panels so I was nowhere near those line horrors. I had a great time and didn't have any problem doing what I wanted to do.

Pre-Reg pickup continues to be a black mark for many attendees. There has got to be a better way.

[petrona.livejournal.com]

Pre-Reg: I arrived on Friday and walked to the front and had my badge in under 4 minutes. My boyfriend did TicketMaster and they timed it from line to pickup: 26 minutes. We have no complaints.

In terms of "have they gotten too big?" Hell no! The crowd was better controlled than last year and I waited less in line this year than last. Panels I visited were very run, efficient and smooth. Doing great by me.

[docrailgun.livejournal.com]

I personally had one of the best Dragoncons yet. Things being spread out helped move people out of the Hyatt and onto the streets. The main problem I saw was the Sheraton and the street crossing... too many people going across there.

[noelleleithe.livejournal.com]

Oh, the street crossing is a good point. I know guest transportation had trouble turning at the corner because of the steady stream of pedestrians and no crowd control. There needs to be a cop posted there like between the Marriott and Hyatt, at least.

[noelleleithe.livejournal.com]

It's definitely getting bigger each year (this was my third), but it's less crowded in most areas because of the way things have been shifted around. Some areas are better than others, though. The International Level was insane Saturday morning, between the parade folks and the photo shoot lines and the dealer's room. Froggy's needs to be in the Hilton.

Having said that, I think adding Thursday programming and another hotel are becoming necessary.

[fnordx.livejournal.com]

I'm friends with someone who was working at Froggy's. They didn't choose that space, they were assigned it.

Although I agree that it could have been set up much better in the space they had.

[ornerybitch.livejournal.com]

I think I'm still digesting my con experience. I first attended DragonCon in 1998 with my parents and it was certainly much smaller then. Then there was a 9 year gap before I started going again. I certainly remember it being much smaller back then. Sometimes the larger crowds can get to me. Even so, so long as I have a quiet room to come back to, or a quiet hiding spot staked out as I did this year, I have a lot of fun. For me a lot of the advantage of DragonCon comes from the fact it's so big. There's always something to do and there's always a wide variety of stuff to do.

Also, I think because the things I go see are generally not as crowded, I avoid a lot of what would make it too big for me. If I need to line up more than an hour ahead of time, I'm not doing it. It definitely gets busier every year, but this year it felt more spread out. Part of that is probably because a lot of parties moved to the Marriott and the Hyatt was easier to move around in. If the art show ever gets as insane as the dealer rooms I might start thinking it's too much.

I haven't hit the point where I've sworn off going, but I can easily see why other people might be bothered with the size of the convention. I think if they can manage to spread the crowds out better, and hopefully take over more nearby hotels, I won't grow sick of it. If it keeps growing every year and nothing is done to better manage the crowds and spread the insanity out, then I'll have to call it quits.

[feuervogel]

I thought the crowd flow was a lot better this year than last year, and way better than 2 years ago (the year half the Marriott was closed for renovations).

Also: http://web.dragoncontv.com/videos/316/

[fnordx.livejournal.com]

I think the con is fine, the only thing I can think of is that they need to add another space for some of the HUGE panels for the huge stars. Something like what they previously used for the Masq. when it was off-site.

Since all of those panels are shown tape-delayed on DCTV anyway, that shouldn't be too much of a problem with the TV, but they'd need busses between both locations. Still, I think it's something that should maybe be considered.

[geneticlemon.livejournal.com]

It felt a lot more crowded this year than in years past, but I think that's because the Marriott's become "the spot" like the Hyatt used to be, and my group was staying at the Marriott.

This was the worst year for me in terms of getting my badge. My friends and I ended up waiting for almost 3 hours, and we were exhausted. Last year, I think I waited about an hour, which wasn't so bad. I don't know what went wrong there ...

The smaller panels were nice, but I avoided the celeb panels like the plague this year. I just watched everything on D*CTV and it was just fine.

[thepeopleseason.livejournal.com]

Tenth year attending (probably sixth on staff). Each year it's getting bigger, but I think the way things were shuffled around (such as gaming and WoF to the Hilton and big event performances to the Sheraton) helped to alleviate a lot of the overcrowdedness of the con. This year is also something of a fluke, because of the Perfect Storm of Trek guests.

But even with the Patrick Stewart line, I didn't think it was as bad as the first year James Marsters showed up.

[vitawash24.livejournal.com]

Dear God. That was the first year I attended, and I almost didn't go back. With the exception of the year they renovated the Marriott, I don't think it's ever been that bad since then.

[crazchica.livejournal.com]

7th year of D*C, 1st on Staff.

I spent most of my time in a track room, but I thought it was much less crowded than usual this year. I rarely waited for an elevator (my longest two waits were Saturday evening and Monday during check-out), and even wandering around the Marriott on Sunday night wasn't a problem. I think how the major panels have been shifted around to all hotels instead of just one or two has been a huge help. Adding the Sheraton and more to the Hilton has been great.

Now, I didn't go through the apparent hell that registration was, nor did I try to get into any major panels, so my opinion may be biased.

Course, nothing can be as bad as that D*C a couple years ago where the Fire Marshal kept shutting down the Hyatt and kicking people out. That was a bad year.

[rozhena-ashford.livejournal.com]

The shutting down the Hyatt pissed me off. It'd have been fine if I wasn't staying there!

Only panel I went to was Friday AM and didn't have any problems getting in. Guess half the peeps were either still asleep or didn't ready the Daily Dragon to see the room change...

[neovenom.livejournal.com]

Doesn't quite feel too big for me yet, but I've never been to anything bigger like SDCC. As long as they keep the events spread between 4 hotels, it's fine. Part of the experience I look forward to is the very fact that I'm surrounded by tens of thousands of fellow geeks around me, who for the most party are friendly and welcoming.

If the growth keeps going at this rate though, something's gonna have to give, whether that's capping memberships, increasing rates, adding more space. But I feel it should be fine for another few years.

[wildflowerz.livejournal.com]

It's too big for me. :( I'd gladly pay double if they put a cap on the number of people who can come. But that will never happen, so there's no use talking about it. :-P

I got into everything I wanted to get into this year. In fact, I've always gotten into everything I've wanted to and this was my...10th year, I think. And I don't do the long lines way ahead of time. I rarely stand in the lines at all, actually. :)

It's annoying to have to walk so far from one thing to the next with it spread out at 4 hotels, but I MUCH prefer it to the massive CF that used to be at the Hyatt. I was barely in the Hyatt at all this year. I kinda think that putting the "all the time stuff" at the Sheraton might be a better option. Stuff like the dealer rooms and gaming. But I'm not sure they have the space for it there, so that might not be a good option.

I'd love to have a decent-quality option to see any panels I missed after the Con online. They could even charge a small fee for it. They're recording them anyway. Of course, I've no idea if that would be hard to do.

[phantomminuet.livejournal.com]

This is my fourth year, and the overall crowds seemed a little more manageable this year than the past two years. That said, registration was still dreadful. I checked in on Thursday evening, thinking to get ahead of the crowd and be able to attend the Shatner/Nimoy session the next morning, and it was a three hour slog in a very warm room with a crowd of slightly sour smelling geeks who don't understand the concept of personal space. Also, whoever was knocking those balloon balls around the room apparently hadn't heard anything about swine flu and keeping your damn hands washed.

I stayed at the Hilton, where the elevators are generally less problematic, but they were a lot worse this year. The Dealer's Room is still a nightmare to navigate, and the ingress and egress at the back of the Hyatt is such a pain in the ass that I willingly walk around the outside of the hotel to avoid it.

The thing I noticed this year was how crowded the late-night panels were, which is something of a change from previous years. And several of the Sci Fi Lit and Alternate History sessions were way too big for the space allocated. I heard the same thing about sessions on the Space and Science tracks.

OTOH I love the wide variety of tracks, and I would hate to lose any of the many options, simply because of crowded sessions.

[sonata-ix.livejournal.com]

6th year here and it felt great to me. The last few years felt pretty horrid but with everything being more spread out and DCTV broadcasting the big stuff, I didn't have to deal with any horrible crowding beyond Froggy's. Of course, there was the usual stuff like too many people wanting to be in the dealers room at once, but that's generally a problem at any con with a decent crowd.

The Marriott did seem pretty full in the evenings, but something about the layout or design makes it feel much less stifling than the Hyatt. This is my 2nd year staying at the Marriott and the elevators were even better than last year. We were on the 28th floor and even Monday morning with our suitcases we only had to wait a few minutes.

[paradisacorbasi.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed it but I'd say it's gotten unmanageably big. between the concerns of lines, the fact that tickets for sub events are being sold now (shades of SDCC) and the fact that I wish I were Jamie freaking Madrox to hit all the panels I want to hit.

If Dragon*Con operated on a 36 hour day for 4 days, it'd be less crazy.

I'll still come anyway.

[meinken.livejournal.com]

What sub events are being sold? I'm not aware of any.

[madzilla.livejournal.com]

This was my 2nd year, and I felt it was slightly less crazy than last year, except for a few exceptions. I didn't get a photo with Shatner/Nimoy but I did turn up to try and buy a ticket for someone else at that time, before very quickly deciding to come back later. XD It's already busy enough down there with people going to the Sheraton and the dealers' room. But yeah, apart from that my ops were all fine. It was useful having the 'waiting' room rather than lining up down various corridors.

I think I was lucky with my registration experience, possibly because we turned up early (about 3.20 IIRC). I was probably through in about 45 mins - 1 hour; by the time we came out though the line was outside.

I don't remember any horrendous waits for elevators in the Marriott, but again, that might just have been the times I happened to be going up to our room.

I didn't go to the biggest panels (I watched them on DCTV instead), but there were some issues with lines at the bigger panels I did go to. But I still got in and got a decent seat so - eh. :)

And I did wander over to the Hyatt on Friday night and it was nowhere near as crowded as it was last year in the evenings - instead, the Marriott was rammed.

Is it too big? Hmm, well, we managed OK with Shatner, Nimoy and Stewart, so unless they get even bigger guests who draw even more people, it should be OK for a few years at least. :)

[nicosian.livejournal.com]

We stayed at the Hilton this year and with the new skyway for it to the Marriott, it was quite a lot faster than staying AT the marriott itself.

It felt quieter this year and I've accepted the Dealer's room where I spend my days as a sweaty pit of people ( fans? AC? something to get the air moving in there by midday would be a charm), but overall, after 4 years, I kind of don't mind the crowds.

I DO wish people would pick slightly better places for random photoshoots, the narrow path by the M store/Starbucks was frequently congested by such.

I think the band tables at the marriott was a fantastic idea. I'll forward to the Cruxshadows guys the fairy photoshoot concern and see if we can't work something better out for next year. ( I have a small hand in helping there.)

[ornerybitch.livejournal.com]

One of my friends was in the group of fairies and she was apologetic about how it blocked the road. So I know that no one was trying to block traffic on purpose. It was just insane trying to get past the wall of people taking photographs in the middle of the escalator area. Everyone else said moving around was easier, so maybe I was just lucky getting into all the traffic jams. -_-

[alexdelarge78.livejournal.com]

sigh

I did not enjoy this con as much as the last. I enjoyed it very much, but quite simply put, it was a game of priority and sacrifice. Of course, you can't see everything, there was so much going on that in order to fend of exhaustion I had to say no to certain things.

Although things certainly seemed a little more controlled, I could not but perceive that this con was more of an attraction for people because of the big named celebrities.

What burst my bubble a little was waiting in line for Bill Shatner, knowing that I had to to do this otherwise there would be no other chance. I finally got to him and I politely asked him to personalise my Boston Legal dvd when his handler was suddenly very abrupt.
I understand, as I stated before. It's just, you spend 75 dollars, wait in line to get the ticket, wait in line for the signing and get a very subtle and brief 'Thank you'.
Not being whiny or anything, I suppose it's just my first time with a very big celebrity, Malcolm McDowell asside.

I'm still suprised that the dealer rooms were full on both Sunday and Monday morning. Last year it was a ghost town, people were in bed or resting or doing other stuff.

Ah well, here's to next con.

[vallikat.livejournal.com]

I didn't feel that it was too crowded by any means. I felt that the elevators weren't nearly as horrible as in years past (this was my third year) and I could get around without too much trouble. It could get a little jammed on the steps at the Hyatt, but nothing I felt was intolerable.

What I think could have stood a major overhaul was the badge line. I was 3 hours + in that line on Thursday. There were no volunteers working the line as in years past and no clear directions for people who purchased their tickets via ticketmaster or were buying them onsite. Considering the change in venue I really think they should have gone to greater lengths to make sure people got to where they needed to be. Additionally, I think the whole process should be streamlined. (Mailing the badges out would be lovely. I'd pay for the shipping if it got me out of that line).

[kittenbiscuits.livejournal.com]

The problem with mailing out badges beforehand is counterfeiting. If I'm not mistaken they used to mail them out but then they had a major problem with fake badges. I don't know if there is a good way around that.

But I agree, the process could be more streamlined. My husband stood in line for several hours on Thursday for Ticketmaster because the machines were down and they only had one line open. But once they got more machines in and opened more lines, the line moved more quickly. It just took them some time to get it going. Luckily he made friends with his line partners and that passed the time. ;)

[awillis2.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed the con, but I wish that the host hotels would just block off the entire hotel from Thurs-Monday for con goers and require either proof of attendance by having to present the post card send out by DC when you register or by showing your con badges after registering, that would prevent some of the stealing of rooms by football and other fandoms.

[litlaur.livejournal.com]

That's just not possible. The hotels are connected to other buildings, office buildings where people work and walk through on a daily basis. Besides, it wouldn't make sense for them to do that from a business perspective.

[kay-brooke.livejournal.com]

This was my third year, and the crowd seemed about the same as last year, and MUCH BETTER than two years ago (with the exceptions that some have already pointed out: the pre-registration line, which is a pain every year; and the unwieldy Patrick Stewart line, which couldn't really be helped). That said, this was my second year staying at the Marriott and it seemed more crowded than last year. Though there was only once where I had to wait an excessive amount of time for an elevator and I remember the elevator waits being worse last year, so maybe there really wasn't much of a difference.

I don't think D*C is getting too big. I really enjoyed this past weekend, more so than I did last year (it helped that I wasn't sick and stressing about a job interview the Tuesday after con like I was last year). When you've got that many people in one space there are going to be bugs and logistical issues, but I think the staff this year handled things pretty well. My brother and I did spend one dinner betting on which nearby hotel would be the next to be taken over, though.

[sabrina-pandora.livejournal.com]

My 2 cents.

Registration is just plain broken. Either people brag that they breezed right through or they complain of hours of waiting. That shows clearly something more organized must be put in place. having pre-registered last year and waited in the hellish lines, I refused to go through that again and I guess it works for the con- I pay a hell of a lot more money to not be exhausted by the time I get my stinking badge.

And the badges have holograms. Really, counterfeiting? Tell you what, I'll risk it. I show my badge to anyone so seldom it is becoming a question of why I buy one every year. I'd pay for them to mail the damn thing to me.

The volunteers. I appreciate them, I do. But some of them need to be taught common courtesy. I paid for this, pal. DO NOT YELL AT ME, period. Ask me and maybe a little 'please and thank you' might be nice. YOU wanted to volunteer for this, pal. You are a willingly indentured servant, so play nice with the paying customers. I cannot count how many of them were wearily repeating the same line to herd traffic or whatnot who couldn't be bothered to just add the word 'please' to their monotonous chore, which would have made them polite as well as efficient.

Last but not least, really, the football fans and the nascar fans and whoever else was jammed into those hotels with us were really amazingly obnoxious. I live in Atlanta. I work here. I know what the citizenry here is like, and these were some downright assholes from outta town. This is my vacation in town, where I go play dress-up in costumes and party and come to have a good time, and at the end of every night I was nearly homicidal. The standout in my mind was when I had to remove some football jerk's face from my cleavage by firmly grasping his manhood in a vice grip and explaining to him that just because they are in the window does not mean the samples are free. This was the first year I have spent so much time being gawked at like a freak, and it definitely didn't enhance my con experience.

There's my thoughts. Since ya asked.

[ornerybitch.livejournal.com]

I show my badge to anyone so seldom it is becoming a question of why I buy one every year.

My boyfriend and I were in the art show filling out registration to be bidders and there was a girl next to us doing the same, wearing very trendy clothing. She seemed out of place, but nerds can love crazy fashions too. She asked one of the volunteers what was the spot asking for a badge number about...because the volunteers let her in without checking to see if she had a badge. She seemed interested in some of the art because she asked where she could go buy a membership so she could bid, who knows if she actually did though.

After that I was also wondering why I even bothered with a badge and waiting in the long line when they just let some random person wander through. If people at the door aren't even checking for badges, why are they so up in arms about counterfeiting?

[clioidae.livejournal.com]

I don't know if this input is relevant, but it may be. I am both a first timer to Dragon*Con and to ANY con. Without any presuppositions or expectations I can tell you that it was FANTASTIC. I did not feel it was too big, in fact, the "largeness" of it is the thing I've been commenting on to my friends. I loved the large sense of community that came with the crowds.

Long lines for panels were not annoying, they were a challenge. It pumped me up to be like I'M GETTING UP FOR SHATNER NO MATTER WHAT YOU WATCH ME. Additionally, without these kinds of crowds, I don't think the parade would be as interesting. The scale of the experience was proportional to my enjoyment.

So I'd say it wasn't too small, and it wasn't too big, it was juuuuuuust right.

[ewesername.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. This too was my first con of any type and I had an absolute blast! I was surprised by the lines but also found that the HUGE conference rooms almost always accommodated everyone in the lines! The Atrium ballroom in the Marriott was amazingly spacious and I easily got in to see the BSG and Nimoy panels with only a 30 minute wait.

Can't wait until next year!

[peacelovefandom.livejournal.com]

It has definitely gotten too big for me. I wouldn't be bothering to go next year if it weren't for a friend coming all the way from Canada to go with us. I don't WANT Dragon*con to be like Comic-Con, where every panel is a 2-3 hour wait to get in. You can't see or do anything like that. It isn't fun. It isn't worth what we pay to get in to queue for half the convention. I love D*C, and it pained me to say that this year made me not want to come back next year.